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Author: Subject: great! now wikipedia has a full agile article...
soliloquy
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posted on 15-7-2008 at 02:19 PM
great! now wikipedia has a full agile article...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_Guitars

:uh:

i think some info is missing...perhaps that will make it harder to get those b-stocks...ohno:
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posted on 15-7-2008 at 02:38 PM


Hmmm, I got an "article not found" message. :dunno:

[Edited on 7-15-2008 by dabbler]




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posted on 15-7-2008 at 02:46 PM


Me too. Did a searcg and found pretty much nothing. :dunno:



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soliloquy
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posted on 15-7-2008 at 02:48 PM


humm...yeah, and now i cant find the article either...wonder what happened.

it was just talking about all the features found on the AL guitars, then wrote down all the current models available from agile...
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alcoholfueled-vii
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posted on 15-7-2008 at 03:29 PM


it was deleted :dunno:

19:19, 15 July 2008 Lifebaka (Talk | contribs) deleted "Agile Guitars" ‎ (G11: Blatant advertising)




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posted on 15-7-2008 at 04:02 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by alcoholfueled-vii
it was deleted :dunno:

19:19, 15 July 2008 Lifebaka (Talk | contribs) deleted "Agile Guitars" ‎ (G11: Blatant advertising)


Yet having articles about Fender, Gibson, Epiphone, Rickenbacker, Tokai, Ibanez, Dean, Kramer, etc isn't blatant advertising??

[edit]

Actually, I don't know how the Agile article was written, so....



[Edited on 15-7-2008 by Mossman]




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posted on 15-7-2008 at 05:27 PM


I sent this email to the guy who pulled the article. I'll let you know what happens, if anything.

"Hi,

I heard there was an Agile guitar entry in Wikipedia and then found that it was deleted because you protested that it was blatant advertising. I didn't get to see the original entry, so I can't comment on the content, but if the entry wasn't written by Kurt from Rondo Music.com, it wasn't an ad in the normal sense of that word.

Agiles represent amazing value for the money, and have enabled a lot of people to obtain an instrument of a quality they otherwise would not be able to afford. The Rondo Music manufacturing/marketing system that gets Agiles to (mostly) US customers from Korea is unique. In addition to standard models, they take custom orders (not available from any other manufacturer at this price point), and allow returns with no questions asked. One can get a Epiphone-quality instrument for about half of what an Epiphne would cost at Musician's Friend or Guitar Center, and at the high end, get a near Gibson-quality instrument for less than 25% of a Gibson.

These facts endear them to players, and make the Agile experience unique in the cut-throat music instrument biz. One of the longest threads on Harmony Central's Electric Guitar forum is devoted to Agile, and there is also an independent Agile User Forum http://www.agileguitarforum.com/index.php) where people discuss their new axes and modifications, and ask for advice on which models to purchase. Many people have large collections of Agile guitars.

The Wiki article probably stressed cost, quality and service because that's what excites Agile users. Agiles are sold only on online, and are advertised entirely by word of mouth. There are no ads anywhere else. The Wiki entry was not an ad.

I think that Agiles deserve a Wiki entry. If you don't like the way the entry was written, then work with the author and the rest of us Agile fans to bring it more in line with Wiki standards.

Yours truly,"
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posted on 15-7-2008 at 06:18 PM


If anyone has a problem with the deletion, the best way to address it is to register and write your own article (making sure to conform to wiki's standards).

A decent article on Agile would be factual as to ownership of the firm, orgins of the company, and provide some useful information as to why the company is notable. Discussion of artists who use the guitars (and links to their wiki pages) would be helpful in establishing notability.

List of guitar models probably would fall under blatant advertising and get it deleted again.

Wiki is open, and contributors are free to create and edit articles.




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posted on 15-7-2008 at 06:22 PM


I suggest that we start a write in to Wikipedia to reinstate the article.

Under the "contact" link there is a link for problem resolution.

It would probably be helpful to indicate that you are an Agile owner or fan and that you are writing as a private individual.

Hammerstone has given us some good words to model.
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posted on 15-7-2008 at 07:17 PM


actually, on the very contrary, if i saw what hammerstone wrote I would've thought it was an ad right away. if we want to have an Agile entry, we should keep it fact specific - for example, what it is and how it became. A very good example would be the SX SJM entry found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SX_SJM

A good starting point would be to mark-up what Kurt previously put on his page and make it neutral. E.g.:


Agile [Guitars] is an American brand name used to market stringed instruments produced in Korea. The brand name was created by Rondo Music, anAmerican owned and operated family business, operating out of [location]. The brand name was founded in [year]. Products sold under the Agile brand name include electric guitars and acoustic guitars. In addition to a variety of standard models, Rondo Music also produces custom made instruments under the Agile brand name.

etc...

Anything that purports to "sell" the company would probably be deleted.




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posted on 15-7-2008 at 08:36 PM


fueled is correct. Wikipedia is very strict about spam, and it would be very difficult to get any of the things I mentioned above into an article unless you could reference them to publication elsewhere. I got an answer from the editor who deleted the article and he said try again, no prob, but before you do, look at the spam rules:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SPAM
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posted on 15-7-2008 at 08:51 PM


i think the best way for us to help is to document the facts, and more importantly, document the models that have been released. For example, we have enough people with knowledge here about every AL, AD, PS model ever made to be able to make an Agile wiki worthwhile - it also won't be too suspect of advertisement since the models change all the time. It might even be worthwhile to figure out which colours/finishes were offered which year, and pickup combinations etc... It would be a fun task if people are up for it!



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posted on 15-7-2008 at 08:55 PM


Don't forget to metion the agile forum :bigthumb:
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posted on 15-7-2008 at 11:25 PM


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posted on 16-7-2008 at 01:08 AM


that sounds good. i'm up for providing whatever info i can get for an agile wikip page!

not that i'm an owner yet...well...i'm still waiting for my guitar :confused:
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posted on 16-7-2008 at 01:18 AM


i thought it strange to see that the entry for Agile was pulled and yet an entry exists for the SJM-62 ... altho in reading this entire thread thus far it makes sense that the sjm entry exists, since it is mainly about that specific guitar and isn't written in an overly spamming or advert-style manner...

i realise this isn't the forum section for sx guitars, but i wonder if there should be an entry for them too, since people seem to be about as fervent for their sx guitars as they are for the agiles ...

perhaps also there could be sub-entries on wikipedia that reference the more popular models?

as far as the 'history' of the brand goes, it sounds like someone should contact Kurt for some more in-depth stuff if needed ... hopefully he'll have time to respond, since he seems to be a busy, busy fellah...

cheers.

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posted on 16-7-2008 at 01:30 AM


well, i know that there was a brief mention about a law suite placed on agile to change its current AL model in 2004. this resulted in a more stubby cut away horn, and a different headstock.

that was the only mention of 'history' on the thing... :dunno:
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posted on 16-7-2008 at 06:43 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by alcoholfueled-vii
i think the best way for us to help is to document the facts, and more importantly, document the models that have been released. For example, we have enough people with knowledge here about every AL, AD, PS model ever made to be able to make an Agile wiki worthwhile - it also won't be too suspect of advertisement since the models change all the time. It might even be worthwhile to figure out which colours/finishes were offered which year, and pickup combinations etc... It would be a fun task if people are up for it!


Whether or not we are ever able to get the wiki article accepted, why not establish a section for model/finish/feature history right here? AGF could (I think it really SHOULD) be the definitive place for the Rondo product history. Plus it will make someone's (maybe someone on here now) job a lot easier to create a nice coffee table book of Rondo products in a few years when they start becoming collectible! :P




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posted on 16-7-2008 at 08:27 AM


I agree dabbler.
Maybe Mikey could get Kurt to give him a history/brief descript., along with pix & model numbers, and post a seperate heading for Agile Guitar History. Maybe on the "red" bar with the Gallery.

It would be pretty awesome for US or anyone else wanting to know/see the background of Agile guitars....




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posted on 16-7-2008 at 09:30 AM


The Wiki editor emailed me the deleted article. You can see the "lawsuit" info is wrong. Here it is:

Agile is a brand of guitars offered through the online store of http://www.Rondomusic.com. Agile makes a wide variety of guitar bodies that are based on current existing guitars offered through other brands, but at a fraction of the price.

Agile guitars are made in Korea.

Some of their most popular guitar lines are the AL ( a Gibson Les Paul type guitar), the AG/AB/Spector (a super strat guitar much like those offered by Jackson, Ibanez, Schecter etc), the Interceptor (a 7 string super strat), the Reaper (a modified Jackson Randy Rhoads type guitar), the TC (a Fender telecaster type guitar), Harm (a Rickenbacker), the Ghost (a Gibson Explorer type guitar), Valkyrie (a Gibson SG type guitar), PS (a Paul Reed Smith type guitar) are just to name a few of many.

'''Features:'''
Agile guitars are often praised for the features that come with their guitars. The features are upgraded as the model numbers of the guitars go up. For example, an AL-2800 comes with single binding on body/neck/head stock, comes with ceramic pickups and rose wood fret board. an AL-3000 comes with multiple bindings, ebony fret board, upgraded pots, thicker maple on body, and either alnico pickups, or brand name EMG 81/85(which are also provided in AL 2500), or Duncun pickups.

''Inlay material:''
Agile provides either Abalone, Mother of Pearl, mother of toilet seat, or no inlays at all. the Abalone and mother of pearl inlays are provided on the AL 3000 and AL 3100 models respectively. mother of toilet seat are provided on the AL 2900, AL 2800, AL 2500, and AL 2000 guitars.

''Fret Board''
Agile guitars come with 3 different options of fret board. these are Maple fret boards(provided on AL 2500 Albino, and Agile Interceptor). rose wood(provided on models lower than 3000 models). and Ebony provided on models higher than 3000.

''Neck Material:''
Agile provides Maple necks on guitars less than the 3000 model. and their 3000 models have a one piece all Mahogany neck.

''Neck shape:''
Agile AL offers the standard guitar neck shapes which is in between the Gibson 50's and Gibson 60's neck. They also offer thin necks which are comparable to the Ibanez Wizard II necks. A third option is Wide which has a nut that is significantly wider than their normal 2 11/16th(standard for Gibson) and 2 1/5th necks.

'''Current models:'''
the current models include:
-'''AL models'''
-Agile Dauntless EMG
-Agile Dauntless Duncdun Design
-Agile AL 2000
-Agile AL 2500
-Agile AL 2800
-Agile AL 2900 w/ F-holes
-Agile AL 3000
-Agile AL 3100
-Agile AL 3500 (which makes rare appearances on Rondo music)
-Agile AL 4000 (which makes rare appearances on Rondo music)

-'''AD models'''
-Agile AD 2000
-Agile AD 2300
-Agile AD 2300 JR.

-'''Valkyrie Models'''
-Agile Valkyrie 24 floyd
-Agile Valkyrie silverburst
-Agile Valkyrie Double neck EMG 12/6 black

-'''TC Models'''
-TC 630
-TC double neck 12/6

-'''Harm Models'''
-Agile Harm I
-Agile Harm II
-Agile Harm III

-'''Reaper Models'''
-Agile Reaper Standard
-Agile Reaper Custom

'''Customer Service:'''
Another point Agile guitars are renowned for is for their Customer Service. Virtually all questions asked through Email are replied to within 24 hours. Another plus point is that agile has a return policy that allows customers to return damaged guitars for a full refund, or an exchange for another model. They also provide a 30 day exchange policy.

'''Agile Custom guitars:'''
Agile now has an option that lets their customers put an order for a custom guitar.

'''Law Suits:'''
Gibson places a law suit on agile guitars in 2004 due to the AL models having an open book headstock, and the exact shape of the cut away. As a result, Agile changed their AL models by having their cut away horn to be a bit more stubby, and their headstock is what is offered now.

'''References:'''
Agile Website: http://www.rondomusic.com

Agile forum: http://www.agileguitarforum.com

reviews: http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/brand/Agile

[Edited on 16-7-2008 by Hammerstone]
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posted on 16-7-2008 at 09:46 AM


Yeah, there NEVER was a Lawsuit.... The rest of the article looks pretty nice.



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posted on 16-7-2008 at 12:24 PM


I agree with dabbler. We really ought to have our own compendium first before establishing a wiki - afterall, this is the AGF!!! A full model by model spec sheet/comparison document would relaly help people researching on Agiles!

Now as for that wiki article, if we were to use it as a template, here are a few suggestions:


Quote:

Agile is a brand of guitars offered through the online store of http://www.Rondomusic.com. Agile makes a wide variety of guitar bodies that are based on current existing guitars offered through other brands, but at a fraction of the price.


That clause there would have to go. The price reference seems like marketing and is unverifiable anyway. The "based on current existing guitars" is not accurate.

Quote:

Some of their most popular guitar lines are the AL ( a Gibson Les Paul type guitar), the AG/AB/Spector (a super strat guitar much like those offered by Jackson, Ibanez, Schecter etc), the Interceptor (a 7 string super strat), the Reaper (a modified Jackson Randy Rhoads type guitar), the TC (a Fender telecaster type guitar), Harm (a Rickenbacker), the Ghost (a Gibson Explorer type guitar), Valkyrie (a Gibson SG type guitar), PS (a Paul Reed Smith type guitar) are just to name a few of many.


As stated in another post, this whole section is incorrect. The problem with this statement is that if the assertions are true, then Kurt would be faced with multiple lawsuits :x: What we, as users, think of as substitutes are not in fact equal to the same thing.

Quote:

'''Features:'''
Agile guitars are often praised for the features that come with their guitars. The features are upgraded as the model numbers of the guitars go up.


Perhaps this would be more accurate (taking away the "praised"):

Agile guitars offer variety of models within each series defined by the body shape of the guitar. The incrementing model number corresponds to the features and upgrades available to that model.

I'm sure the AL series comparison table (or a text version with the same content) is something that would pass muster if the article itself is accurate. That table is simply factual and worth documenting.

[Edited on 16-7-2008 by alcoholfueled-vii]




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posted on 16-7-2008 at 12:32 PM


I guess I'm selfish....I don't want everybody to know about Agiles... less guitars for me at great prices.:(



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posted on 16-7-2008 at 12:38 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Seeds
I guess I'm selfish....I don't want everybody to know about Agiles... less guitars for me at great prices.:(


:P we musn't mention b-stocks in the wiki...




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